PAT:
It
was on the Brogdon graveyard. I said
that Uncle Blue Brogdon, that was a brother
to Emmet. Well Uncle [Blue Brogdon]
come down years ago and he bought a farm and
he give an acre on the south side of the
farm for a Brogdon graveyard. And as
they died off, they were buried there and
others were buried there ... the neighbors
was buried there, you know. And it was
sold, the place was sold to a farmer by the
name of Davis and this graveyard now was
fenced and after he moved there, you know,
bought it, he tore the fence down. He
had some cattle and he tore it down so that
the cattle could go and eat the grass and
stay in the shade and also built a room to
the house and I understood that he went out
there and got some headrocks to make the
corner posts. And Emmet come down here
and I took him out there and it was pitiful
to look at .. it had practically been
abandoned, no interest taken in it, and
nobody being buried there any more.
[ed. note:
Blue Brogdon was William S. Brogdon, and an
uncle to Emmet. No blood relationship
to Pat. Pat's half sister, Pearl
Baker, married Emmett Brogdon and this
couple was Ralph's parents.]
RALPH:
Do
you know whether they registered that in the
county when he set aside that acre or not?
PAT:
No,
I don't. That's been probably around
80 years ago and they might not have kept
any record at that time, I wouldn't know,
but I'll tell you Frank's youngest daughter
works over there and she could look and see
if it was recorded.
RALPH:
If
it was recorded and some of our family
wanted to fence it in, then they would have
to let them, if it was registered.
When dad first died and I talked to mom on
the phone the first time I'd heard about
that graveyard all my life and I thought, I
said, well are you going to bring him down
to the Brogdon graveyard. She got real
upset about that because she knew how bad it
was, you know, and I didn't I just supposed
that it was like any other graveyard.
PAT:
Well,
Emmet was real upset about the shape it was
in.
RALPH:
Do
you know how many brothers and sisters that
Blue had?
PAT:
Well,
old man Blue, and Albert Brogdon, and Henry
Brogdon, and John. Well, let's see,
there was Uncle Bud. There was Uncle
Bud, Henry and John and Albert, four.
RALPH:
That
was Blue's brothers. And John was my
dad's father, and then Lawrence...
PAT:
Lawrence's
other name was Henry.
RALPH:
That's
what I was thinking.
PAT:
And
Emmet's other name was John.
RALPH:
You
know, I never did find that Brogdon that
used to be over at Durant. You know
when I first moved over here there was a
Brogdon that lived over there ...
PAT:
Yes,
John moved over there. Died over
there. But they brought him back here
and buried him at Georgetown and Annie his
wife was about three or four weeks ago that
she died and they brought her over
here. Now John's boy lives down here
on Walker Street. He works at the tire
plant, I think. Murray.
RALPH:
Murray
Brogdon.
PAT:
He's
better now and able to work, but he did have
some kind of cancer trouble and he went to
Dallas and was taking treatments down there,
but someone told me not long ago that he was
able and was working. You remember
Annie, don't you?
RALPH
Yes...
PAT
She
died about four weeks ago. She still
lived at Durant and died there in
Durant. Undertakers had charge of the
body and everything. But Annie was
getting up, I guess she was getting way up
into the 80's.
RALPH
I
saw her one time, I remember seeing her ..
PAT
Her
name was Armstrong. There was several,
five of the girls, Armstrong. Annie
was the oldest one. But she's the only
one that's living.
RALPH
I
wanted to ask you about the Phillips that
raised your dad, or took him in. Is
one of his boys the one you're talking about
being in Corsicana and buying a house with
your dad?
PAT
No.
Uncle Burt, mother's brother, Burt
Banks. And they come through Denison
here when they was just surveying the
streets and all of that black land around
Sherman out there was a dollar and a half an
acre. That's what it sold for. They
went down around Corsicana and went out east
of Corsicana and Uncle Burt bought quite a
bit of acreage, just raw land. There
was some timber on it and he and dad went
and cut logs enough and built a house
there. When Uncle Burt died and me and
__________ went to the funeral and that
house was there and everything and they
built on the north side of it a lumber
house. And there was a little old
bench sitting out there on the south porch
that dad made.. and the wash pan dad had
made when he was there so that he could wash
outside on the porch there. It was
still there.
RALPH
This
Brogdon graveyard, is it close to the lake
there?
PAT
Well,
it's not too far from the lake.
RALPH
I
just wondered how close it was to the place
where Dad's father and mother had, is it
close to it?
PAT
Yes.
It ain't too far, and right down north of
the graveyard there at Uncle Blue's place,
you know, went off in rough land, you know,
a big spring was down there and the James
boys, that was one of their headquarters
when they came through this country, and old
man Albert Brogdon told me that he went down
there lots of nights and stayed with them
after they found out who he was, he would go
down there and visit with them.
RALPH
Well,
that's been a while ago, hasn't it?
PAT
Yes,
that's been a long time. Let me tell
you another thing that happened ... Emmet
wanted me to come to Joplin, [MO] ... when I
lived here I raised hogs, I liked to fool
with hogs ... and this place he bought had
hog pens on it. Well, I sold out and
went up there. After I got up there,
he had talked to somebody that knew the
place and was going into the hog business
and that's why I didn't ought to do
it. Said it was a lot of hogs used to
be raised there and had died with a lot of
cholera and the germs were probably still
there in the ground and I figure that one of
those cholera germs, you know, you could
take cholera and so we decided not to and I
worked on the farm there. One day
Quantrill's last man come into Joplin and in
the northwest part and someone seen him come
into the house that knew him and they phoned
the chief of police and he got an officer
and two detectives and they were to come out
there and get him. Well, they were
coming along and these two detectives would
look behind them and see that the chief and
his party was coming along. They got
within about three or four blocks from the
house and the chief's car never did show up
and so the record was, now these detectives
stopped and they said "Well, what will we
do? Will we go on up there and get him, or
will we go back." One of them said, "Let's
go get him." One of them said "I'll
take the north door, you take the south
door." and they rushed up there, jumped out
of the car, one ran around to the north
door, the other to the south door and the
north door one ... this Quantrill man was in
the north room... and he shoved the door in
and he shot at this guy and it went through
his hat. At that time the south door
detective he had shoved the door in and he
ran in there and shot this guy down and he
fell across the bed. They said that
they held their guns on him about ten
minutes because he still had his gun in his
hand and they thought might just be a
possom, you know, but then they decided that
he was dead and they called the undertaker
and they came out and got him. And we
went up to town some nights to the
show. And every night we went up
there, we went by the funeral home and seen
this guy. They advertised for any of
his relatives or friends that wanted him,
you know, but nobody ever did claim him and
finally the city buried him. That was
the last of Quantrill's gang.
RALPH
And
that's been a while ago too, hasn't it?
PAT
Yeah.
RALPH
I
think that may have been before my time, I'm
not sure.
PAT
But
old man Albert would go down there and stay
with the James boys for two or three nights
out of the week while they was camped down
there.
RALPH
It
seems to me like I heard Mom telling about
how your dad got grazed by a bullet in the
civil war. Did your dad get grazed by
a bullet in the civil war?
PAT
Never
did.
RALPH
I
was thinking she said he did. I
couldn't remember.
PAT
He
never did. And all the guns that they
had to fight with was a little bitty old gun
they had to mold the bullet and they had the
powder and you had to load it like a
musket. It was about that long.
And every time they'd shoot it they'd have
to reload it. And they lay behind
trees, you know, and they'd load it and then
shoot at the enemy. And dad said that
there was this one fellow that went from
Arkansas there that was friendly and
whenever he'd shoot at them he'd stick his
hand back behind the stump or tree, you
know, and motion at them to come on.
But there's two places that dad was in big
battles. One of them was at Pea Ridge.
RALPH
Pea
Ridge, Arkansas
PAT
Yes.
It was the first station out of Missouri
into Arkansas. And the other one was a
Prairie Grove. Them was the two
biggest battles he was in. And when I
was up at Joplin one time I came back
through this Prairie Grove and just a locked
building there was all it was. And it
was in just a grove of little elm
trees. The rest of it all the way
around it was prairie and that's why they
call it Prairie Grove. And you could
see the dent of a cannon ball where they hit
that store. But then they would get to
where they got into it.
RALPH
Well,
they've got a big monument there at Pea
Ridge.
PAT
They
have?
RALPH
They
have a big, oh, kind of a museum type thing.
PAT
[unintelligible]
and that first big town was a town the size
of Missouri. It was right on the
Arkansas line.
RALPH
They've
got a place there that they've got some
cannons out ... it's a building with kind of
a museum ... and then they've got a cannon
or two out there on the lawn.
PAT
Well,
Ralph, we come through there whenever we
come back. We missed Prairie
Grove. And we come through there and
got a lot of pictures of that. That
wasn't Pea Ridge.
RALPH
Well,
there's one up there at Pea Ridge,
Arkansas. It's right down there close
to Eureka.
PAT
Pea
Ridge the way that dad give it was the first
little town inside of Missouri. Pea
Ridge and Prairie Grove was two of the
biggest battles that he was in. He
said lots of times they was hungry, you
know, hadn't had nothing to eat for a day or
two and they'd stop and kill a yearling and
they'd skin it and then cut them off a piece
and eat it raw, you know. And he said
that lots of times they had to get and leave
it, the enemy was so close to them and all,
that they just got up and left the
yearling. He said that they killed
lots of calves and all to get something to
eat ... eat it raw.
Maybe that's the reason I like raw meat,
you reckon? Mom used to have a time
keeping me away from especially raw
hamburger and stuff like that. I'd get
a mouthful of it. Of course, I'd eat
about anything anyway, though. Still
do, for that matter
RALPH
I've
always wondered what civil war battles he
was in, but I never did know. I don't
guess mom ever did know which ones.
PAT
Well,
we down when Uncle Burt died. He had a
boy and a girl. Tom said to Lynch, that was
the boy, said "Lynch, what did Uncle Burt do
with that little gun that he went to" and
Lynch said that its up there over the door,
you know, and he said "Do you want it?" and
Tom said "Yeah." And he went and got
it and gave it to Tom. Tom came on
home and he had a grandson that was in the
service and he gave it to him and he swapped
it off to somebody in the Army because it it
was ... to have it would be a great thing
...
RALPH
He
didn't realize what the history was behind
it...
PAT
No,
sure didn't...
RALPH
That's
the way kids are ...
PAT
But
dad said that when they was breaking this
land out there there was a lot of prairie
chickens and Uncle Burt would take that
little old gun and kill 'em and "et" em ...
people et 'em. They et lots of
'em. And they would follow along in
the rut of the plow and get the worms and
Uncle Burt was a dead shot, he said, on
them. They et lots of prairie
chickens. They was in droves then down
there.
RALPH
I
doubt if there's a prairie chicken ... not
very many prairie chickens in state of Texas
now, is there. There's a lot of them
in Kansas and Iowa .. and there's not very
many in Missouri, though.
PAT
They
had pretty good sized ones.
RALPH
I don't know whether you remember or not
... about the time you was up there one
time, though, we was trying to raise some
pheasants, to turn loose, you know, and
never did do any good. But they've got
pheasants out in Kansas, northern
Kansas. Her brother has just pheasant
hunting and that's how come me to
overindulge yesterday. He'd cooked us
up a bunch of pheasants. Really good.
PAT
Ralph,
just looking at you, you know, you don't
look to be as healthy as you was when you
was here before.
RALPH
I'm
a little older, Pat.
PAT
Well,
I know it, but you're showing it, too.
(Ola
Mae):
He's been in the hospital, Pat.
RALPH
I
was in the hospital nine days ...
PAT
Nine
days... I've been in the hospital all my
life eleven days. I went to a
chiropractor in the early thirties, and he
died about three or four years ago.
And I've been in the hospital about eleven
days in all of my life and for the last
thirty years I've been taking Geritol every
day, although I've missed some days.
That's the best medicine that you've ever
taken...it's a blood builder and an
appetizer.
RALPH
Well,
if it's an appetizer, I don't need it
because I'm hungry all the time anyway.
PAT
It's
a good blood builder.
RALPH
I've
had a little trouble with my blood, you
know, and ...
PAT
Well,
I've missed ... out of thirty years, you
know ... I've missed maybe five or six
months. Of course, some guy ... I
forget now where... sent me some samples for
people over 40 years old. It was a
good vitamin, but ...
RALPH
I
didn't know they still made it. Do
they still make it?
PAT
Yep.
RALPH
I
knew that guy had sold out ... Geritol.
PAT
Lawrence
Welk lots of times advertised on his show,
you know, about people been taking Geritol
so I've been thinking about writing and
telling the company how long I've been
taking it...they might give me some Geritol.
RALPH
They
might give you a free sample or two... I
can't ever keep up with your age, Pat.
I don't know why. How old are you now?
PAT
Ninety-three...
RALPH
Ninety-three.
Well, I apologize to you. I thought
you were ninety-five.
PAT
Nope.
I was born in '84 ... the 12th of
April. Born here at Denison and I
lived in and around Denison all my life with
the exception of about two years and a half,
or something like that, we was up at
Joplin. And all of us kids have been
just right close to each other here, save
Mary. She went up to Kentucky and
stayed about three months and she came
back. And with the exception of that,
all us kids has been here from within
I'd say from a mile to not over 20 miles in
a circle, you know. Uncle Burt, when
he come up to visit, he said that "I never
seen kids stay as close together as Ann's
children have." ... That was her name.
Well, she requested that and that's what she
done. And when she died, before she
died, she said "Wid, keep the children all
together." And he did. And we
used to, back at that old home place there
in Arkansas... Tom was old enough and he'd
go galavanting at night.. and a lot of times
John, he'd go somewhere. Well, us kids
... everything was rail fence, there wasn't
no barbed wire... us kids would go get in
the corners in the rail fence, you know, and
sit there until we got sleepy and then we'd
go into the house and we'd go to bed.
And our supper was mush and milk.
RALPH
It's
still a good supper, isn't it...
PAT
Yes
sir. That's what we had for
supper. And when we was up there and
all, the old house was just the same only
Mr. Smith had bought it. It had a big
basement over there, you know, and it had a
trap door over here in the northwest corner
of the living room. And they'd go open
that door and they'd go down the steps,
there. Had apples, cabbage and
everything stored down there in the
winter...
RALPH
Was
that in Huntsville, Pat?
PAT
No,
in Hinesville. And Smith had closed it
and made an entrance out here on the south
side with steps and a concrete walk down
into there, you know ... and the garden was
right north of the house and it was still
there and everybody there [unintelligible]
and they've got a row or two of ______ in
the garden and the [unintelligible] was
still there, you know. I know dad said
one time they was thrashing, you know, and
his mother was a widow lady and him and his
mother lived together and they was thrashing
and they had dinner there at their place at
that time. And he said that they was
eating dinner and Mrs. Smith, she talked
long and all, she said "Albert, you can't
make a guess what I found in a can of lard
down in the basement this morning."
And he said, "No, mother" he said "What was
it?" She said "There was a skunk got
in there and died." and she said, "I just
brought the lard up here and had it over and
restrained it."
RALPH
[laughing]
Well, it ought to have made good lard,
hadn't it?
PAT
I
can remember ...I was the least one of them,
you know ... and Sadie, Chloe and Burt and
them others'd go down in there in the
basement, through the door you know, and get
apples and eat it down there. And I
finally got ahold of a hat pin about that
long and they wouldn't let me go down there
and I'd go get along that door and ... it
was little cracks in it, you know ... and
when they'd come up to get out,
though, I'd punch that there hat pin
at 'em and punch 'em in the head and run 'em
back down. I wouldn't let them come
out, that why they got _____ a little.
RALPH
Did
you get very many whippings over things like
that?
PAT
Huh?
RALPH
Did
you get your britches warmed for things like
that?
PAT
No.
RALPH
Got
away with it, huh.
PAT
That
was when dad had taken a job selling
headrocks ... tombstones, and he was gone
from a week to ten days and us kids was just
there at home and he ... the only way he had
to go was on horseback ... he cut up the
rock at mother's grave and (Jonah's?) grave.
RALPH
Did
you ever hear how he got that nickname of
"Wid?"
PAT
Huh?
RALPH
Did
you ever hear how he got his nickname?
PAT
Wid.
RALPH
Yes,
but how did he come by that? Did he
...
PAT
Well,
his name was William and they just called
him Wid. Just nicknamed and called him
Wid.
RALPH
Never
heard of that before...
PAT
It
was William Baker, and his mother's name was
Ann. Just one name, Ann. And he
just had one name, only a nickname.
[Francis:
Ralph,
were you named after him?]
RALPH
I
chose that William myself. You know
they just named me Ralph when I was born and
I didn't like it at all so I chose the name
William for myself. And I still get
mail William Ralph Brogdon. My birth
certificate reads Ralph.
[GAP IN TAPE]
RALPH
...We
got a Christmas card back from them.
We sent Beaulah and Mary a Christmas card at
Chatsworth and we got it back, address
unknown. Although, this oil lease
thing has been going through to them, but we
haven't heard directly from them. We
used to hear from them every year.
PAT
The
last they were through here they didn't come
to see me, but they always did. And
Eddick and Willie Morton lived out close to
west of Pottsborough and they'd always go by
to see them. And they didn't
come. Someone was here and said "Pat,
did you Mary and Beaulah when they was here"
and I said "No, they didn't come."
Said "they was here alright because I seen
them in Tulksville[?]." But they
didn't come see me and I haven't heard from
them. One day I was working out there
at the cemetery and all and there was a man
and a woman come down while I was
there. And they said "Do you know
where Earl Baker's grave is?" and I
said "Yes, sure I do." And I said "Who
are you all?" and she was one of the
twins. And they lived in Wisconsin and
I took them down and showed them Earl's
grave. There was all five of them ...
they had five children, two twins, a set of
twins, and there wasn't either one of them
lived in the same state.
Well, last I knew they were all scattered.
RALPH
Raymond,
he had done retired out of service, but his
wife was still in service but had so many
years to go before she retired. So
she's retired or died, and I don't know
where Raymond is. Never hear from him.
I don't know. The last time I saw
Raymond he come down from Ft. Sill, three or
four times down to Fort Worth and at that
time he was single. I don't
know. His wife would let him out there
in Fort Worth, I think, and went on.
That's been sixteen years ago.
PAT
Well,
when Orel died, why I had him brought back
here.
RALPH
Well,
I was over here at the funeral.
PAT
He's
buried there at Georgetown. And ...
his girl he was foolish about her. She
worked at Denton down there and ... a
waitress...
RALPH
Lena.
I saw her a few times, but haven't seen her
in a long time.
PAT
And
she come up here and wanted a barren
space. Well Burt, my nephew by Tom and
all, had a full lot of twelve graves and he
didn't need them. And I had taken her
out to Burt and Burt sold her half of his
lot... he give fifteen and he sold her half,
told her she could have it for seven and a
half. And she never did pay him.
Whenever Earl died and all, he was buried in
there on the half lot that Burt let her
have. And she put Earl over here on a
little old tradition way of burying is face
to east, man on the right, woman on the
left. Well, whenever they buried Earl she
had a space left north of Earl and I figured
it all the time that she had it there for
Mary, but I don't know. But Earl is
just buried up there. So several years
ago, I don't know who did it, I figured it
was Raymond, he come through here and all,
and he bought a headrock about that high,
and about that wide and about that thick and
never put anything on it but "father
Baker". That' all he put on it.
So it's out there and I don't know whether
Mary and Beaulah is alive or not.
RALPH
Well,
they were the last I heard. I saw a
copy of a letter from Beaulah and Mary, both
of them, about this oil lease and they
had that Chatsworth, California address but
I don't know how come we got that Christmas
card back and we've never been really able
to get their address since.
PAT
Well,
Mary had a sister name of Denny.
RALPH
Well,
now she had leukemia. She sold her
interest in that to Bob Ludwith. Oh,
it's been several years ago, and she died...
I'd say it was fifteen, twenty years,
fifteen years ago anyway, or more.
PAT
I
figured that she was dead.
RALPH
Herbert
... you know her boy ... Herbert Hiram,
lived at Lubbock there where she did for a
long time. As a matter of fact,
Beaulah and ... what was Beaulah's boy's
name? Paul. They lived there at
Lubbock for a long time. I'd see them
when I'd deliver cars out there.
Herbert was in the burglar alarm business
and he came down to Wichita Falls for a
while then he moved back to Amarillo.
He was in Amarillo the last I heard.
He was still running... the guy that he had
worked for, he had bought him out. I
hadn't seen him for several years but he was
in awful bad health. I think he was
living on glycerin pills.
PAT
Lawrence,
him and his mother are buried out there at
Georgetown, in the same lot.
RALPH
I
was thinking he was buried right out here.
PAT
No.
They're buried out here at Georgetown.
They've got a curb out there. Burt put
a curb around their lot up there. And
...
RALPH
I
don't know why, but I was thinking they were
buried in this one right up here on the
corner.
PAT
No.
They're buried at Georgetown.
RALPH
Well,
who else of our family is buried right up
here? Is part of the Bakers buried
right up here, around the corner up here.
PAT
No.
RALPH
I
guess that maybe I'm imagining things, I
guess. I was thinking that there was,
right up on the ridge up there...
PAT
I
don't know why they didn't bury them in the
Brogdon graveyard. Well, it was just
in such shape that it was pitiful.
And, Mrs. Brogdon bought a full lot up
there. And her and Lawrence is buried
on it. Lawrence and my nephew, Troy
Baker, they joined the service together.
RALPH
I've
got a picture of them.
PAT
You
have?
RALPH
I'm
glad you mentioned that because the other
name on there is Troy and I couldn't figure
out ... I saw it the other day... and I
couldn't figure out who that Troy was.
PAT
Troy
Baker. He died about ... when they got
out ... they enlisted for two years ... when
they got out Lawrence came home and stayed
home. Troy reenlisted and he stayed in
for I don't know how long. And when he
got out he lived in Hawaii and he married
... I think, I know he married twice and
all... those Hawaiian girls, you know ...
and he went in the real estate
business. And supposed to have made a
lot of money. Well, here a few years
ago he came over here and visited the
folks. He has a sister up at
Gordonville and different places. And
he went over here west of what used to be
the Sloan[?] railroad, you know, and bought
quite an acreage over there and was going to
put up units, houses you know, and rent them
out. Well, he got Burt Brady, his
brother in law there at Gordonville.
Burt was pretty wealthy you know, and Burt
went on his note to buy them. And, by
golly, he stayed over here not too long and
he went back to Hawaii and he left ... Burt
had to buy that land, you know. He was
on the note for it. And it's still
sitting up there vacant, I guess. So,
Troy died about a few months ago and they
buried him over there in Hawaii.
RALPH
Now,
this picture has got Lawrence and Troy on
it. I knew who Lawrence was, but I
couldn't figure out that Troy. And
they had on those old leggings that they
used to lace all the way up, you know, and
they were duded up good.
PAT
Yeah.
Him and Lawrence was buddies here and they
joined the service. They joined two
years. And Lawrence got out and he
stayed home and Troy rejoined and then when
he got out he got out at Hawaii and he
stayed there the rest of his life. But
he's dead now. Died a few months ago.
RALPH
Well,
how is Bootsie's wife?
PAT
Bootsie's
wife? She's just barely here. I
talked to her today. She's been
diabetic a long time and now she's got
cancer of the bone in the back and yesterday
she wasn't able to be up. She's just
out of the hospital and she wasn't able to
be up and I talked to her since noon and
she's still in bed. She's just barely
here, that's all. Bootsie's boy, the
oldest one, he's retired. He worked
for a certain outfit and he's pretty well
fixed and the youngest one, the one we call
[Mattux?] Alva Lee he's had a job for a few
years with this building out here where they
build these air conditioners. He's
been working out there. His uncle
worked out there and got to be foreman and
all and he got Alva Lee a job out there and
Alva Lee's got the first dime that he made
out there.
RALPH
What
you think about him... he likes ... and we
still call it that... you know he liked to
go over and get some Chloe gravy. He
called it Chloe gravy ... milk and flour and
we still call it Chloe gravy.
PAT
Alva
Lee was a good boy. He worked a whole
lot for me out at the cemetery and he's a
good boy, but ...
RALPH
Well,
what about ... Have you heard anything about
Kay. You know, the one that got
crippled in the car wreck. Annice's
girl.
PAT
Who?
Oh, they're in Dallas. I don't know,
they haven't been up here in some
time. And they're both in
Dallas. And the one that's crippled,
he had a ... she can drive a car. He
had things fixed where she can drive a car,
and all, but they live in Dallas.
They've got a nice home over here in
Sherman, but anyway why... and the other
girl's got a good job down there in Dallas.
RALPH
We
used to see her pretty often, but we haven't
seen her in a long time.
PAT
Well,
some old hag and a guy was coming out to ___
and ___'s resort to spend the night, you
know. And they, Annice and Milton were
going to Sherman to see the girls and out
there on the highway, this old gal, she
pulled over to come around the truck, you
know, and Milton and Annice were there and
so Annice pulled off of the highway and she
did too, and she hit them and took Annice's
head off, nearly, and killed them both right
there. Never did get anything out of
it. They had an old car and him and
her was coming out to stay all night at
______ one night, the old hag...
RALPH
And
him too! [laughter] Well, we want to
put all of it we can on the women, don't we
Pat? It's all their fault.
PAT
Yeah.
Well, she was driving.
[Francis]:
Now,
that's heresay.
RALPH
They
hadn't ought to have been there, that's for
sure.
PAT
Now,
take Mrs. Brogdon out buried there at
Georgetown. She was the Henry
Brogdon's wife.
RALPH
She
married...
PAT
She
married two brothers.
RALPH
She
married John, which was my granddad, then
she married Henry, who would be my great
uncle, I guess.
And Lawrence and Beaulah was by Henry and
John and Mary and Denny, they were by her
first husband.
I just wonder where they got that name
Emmet to put on my dad. I don't know
where they got that. And Cleon, too.
Well, when Henry died, Mrs. Brogdon married
a fellow by the name of Stephen and she died
and she had a boy and a girl,
[Editor's
note: Pat was a little confused
here. Minnie, Ralph's grandmother,
married John T. Brogdon and after his
death, married his brother, Henry L.
Brogdon in about 1896. Henry
L., we believe, was divorced from his
first wife, Josie, nee Bacon, and it was
she that married the Stephens sometime
around 1890 . The Douglas Stephens
family and Henry Brogdon family were
neighbors during the 1900 census.
One must wonder how that worked. *S* Billy
and Oma mentioned below were Henry's
children by Josie.)
PAT
Billie.
Do you remember Billie Brogdon?
RALPH
Well,
no. I never did see him.
PAT
And
Oma. A boy and a girl. And then
she married... And they lived a Logan.
And Billy a pharmacist out of himself and he
worked down here at Dennison and all.
And Oma married Edgar Muse, lived over there
at Cedar Mills. They're both
dead. All of them. Mrs. Stevens
is dead. She died of cancer ... and
____, he died with a hernia and all. I
know it was one cold night in the wintertime
and George lived up there and me and Tom,
we'd go see about him when he didn't come
down to the store. Lived about a
quarter mile south of the store. And
if he didn't come down in a day or two we'd
go see about him. We went up there one
evening late to see about him and he was in
misery and all. And, so we called Dr.
Greer at Gordonville. He got up and
come down. Cold, boy it was
cold. And he come down there and all
the way of coming he had was in a one-horse
cart. And he'd take his clothes down
to his hip, put newspapers next to his body
...
RALPH
To
keep the wind out.
PAT
Wind
won't penetrate, you see... and all.
And he'd dress up and come down there and
sit in that little old hack and get down
there. And he come down there and as
soon as he looked at Stephen he said "I
can't do this man no good." He said
that he's got to get to the hospital just as
soon as he can. And he asked me and
Tom if we could get him there. Well, I
had a buggy and a horse and we fixed a bed
back in the back seat and got him in there
as comfortable as we could. We got out
to Sherman the next morning just about
daylight and Dr. Greer had said "I'll go
down to Sherman the next morning and have
everything fixed. This an an
emergency." And we got him down there
and they took him in and that apparently got
out and he couldn't get it back and gangrene
set up all in his stomach. They
operated on him but he died that night and
that was Henry Brogdon's wife's second
husband.
[deleted some
gossipy discussion about individuals who
are probably still living]
PAT
I
know they was farming, and this was after
Lawrence got out of the service, you know,
and old man McKee rented the place from ...
and moved down there and farmed on it.
And there's about a half a mile or further
from the house to the north end of the
cultivating land. And it come up a bad
cloud, you know, from the west... thundering
and lightning and all and Lawrence said to
old man McKee, he said "Let's quit and go to
the house." He said "It's going to
rain or maybe storm." And old man
McKee said "Oh, no" he said "I don't care
how much it storms or rains" you
know." He said "I've been hit on the
head three times with lightning."
Lawrence said "You're just a damn
liar." [laughter]
RALPH
I
expect Lawrence was ready to fight him about
that time, wasn't he?
PAT
Old
man was bald headed. He said "I've
been hit on the head three times by
lightning, never did hurt me."
RALPH
By
the way, you've still got a pretty good
bunch of hair.
PAT
Yeah...
RALPH
I'm
losing mine back there.
PAT
Well,
dad had just about as much hair as I've got.
RALPH
Well,
Earl got plumb bald, didn't he?
PAT
Yeah.
EARL
And
Eldon, Earl's younger boy, he's plumb bald.
PAT
Yeah,
he is.
RALPH
Whenever
we come up here to Earl's funeral, why, he
was bald.
PAT
Well,
this girl was out there at the cemetery
getting the names of ... and not a one of
them lived in the same space. Raymond
was in Germany. But I figure that
after Raymond got out he put that rock up at
Earl's space. But he never did come
see me or anything.
RALPH
Well,
he came to see us several times in Fort
Worth. When he was at Ft. Sill and
well, when Earl died he went to Fort Worth
with us and then he caught a bus to El
Paso. And then when he got stationed
in Ft. Sill, he came to see us several
times. But then he disappeared and we
didn't see him any more. And people
get separated, and they... just like we
don't take time to... we're just a hundred
miles over here.
PAT
Do
you remember Dad?
RALPH
Yes.
I remember, just barely remember him.
That's all.
PAT
Go
right in there at look and see his picture.
RALPH
Yeah,
I've seen it. Mom used to have one
like that, but I don't know what ever
happened to it. She had it in a
circular frame, but I don't know what ever
happened to it.
PAT
My
nephew out here at Pottsboro has got
mother's picture. It is just like
that. And Jacob, my nephew had this
picture and he said "I'm going to give it to
you as long as you live, and whenever you
die then it comes back to me." and I told
him "All right" but Floyd, my nephew out
here at Pottsboro has got my mother's
picture. Sade had them both made, you
know. And she lived out there and she
let Floyd have her mother's picture and Jack
let me have that one. I never seen Dad
with his whiskers off but one time.
And we lived there in Denison and all.
And he went down to the barbershop one night
and had his whiskers all cut off, you know,
come back up to the house and knocked on the
door and my mother opened the door,
stepmother, and all and he said "I'm just
kind of lost. I'm looking around, and
I'd like to find a place where I could stay
all night." And she said, "Why,
no!. You can't stay all night
here! We don't have room for you, and
you can't stay all night." And he
jollied her a little, you know, and he said
"Well, I'm just going to come in and stay
anyway." and he opened the door, and when he
did ... and she recognized him. That's
the only time I knew him having his whiskers
cut.
[GAP
IN
RECORDING]
RALPH
...Yeah,
because they was always doing something like
that.
PAT
Francis,
get the little picture up there of _______.
RALPH
I've
got a picture at home of grandpa. It's
a postcard picture and it's him out standing
feeding chickens. And he's got his
beard, of course. But its sure getting
faded.
PAT
Now
that Sade, Chloe, Pearl and myself.
This is Pearl here, that's Sade over there,
and Chloe under that tree.
RALPH
That's
been quite a while ago, too, hasn't
it. About 25 years ago.
[Francis]:
This
was taken at ... out at ... when Bootsie
lived out there. We went out, all of
us.
RALPH
Pat,
do you feel like telling me again about your
dad?
PAT
Yeah.
RALPH
About
him coming from Tennessee, and I'll get it
on here, so I'll be sure and have it.
PAT
I
don't know what county or town he come from
but I do know that he was born and lived up
to about 18 or 20 years old in
Tennessee. His father died and he
lived ... him and his mother lived together
... for maybe two years and then she
remarried. And when she did he left
home and he come over to Huntsville,
Arkansas and Uncle Jim Phillips owned quite
a little land there, you know. And he
had five boys, four boys. And he'd
taken dad in and just raised him as one of
the boys, you know. And he lived there
with them until the war broke out. Him
and mother was going together and they
agreed between each other that if he got out
of the service and all that they would
marry. And he got out of the service
and all and they married. And then
they come to Texas here and come through
Dennison when it was just being surveyed
off. And they went on down to
Corsicana and went on out east of Corsicana
and Uncle Burt bought several acres of land
down there, raw land. And they cut
logs and made a log house there. And
then got lumber and made a side room on the
north of it. And they cut that in
cultivation. Some of it was, but some
of it was but some timber and they put that
in cultivation and dad made one crop down
there and they he come back to
Dennison. Uncle Burt stayed on down
there and raised his family. He had a
boy and a girl and stayed on down there 'til
all of them died and all. We went down
to Uncle Burt's funeral and all. He
was ninety some-odd years old when he died
and of course the boy and girl I guess is
both dead now and Aunt Mag is dead, you know
and I don't know what become of the
place. They probably willed it to
somebody or something or another. But
anyway, Dad said they was building this log
house and there was a wild bull out down
there, you know. And Uncle Burt was
quite a little ways from the house getting
something or another, and this here wild
bull spied him and made a run at him and all
and Dad said he was just bearing. They
didn't have a window in the east end of the
log house, and he said that Uncle Burt just
barely cleared that window when the bull got
there. He went right through that
window.
RALPH
Well,
he hit it anyway, didn't he.
PAT
Yeah.
If the thing'd gotten out, it'd kill him.
RALPH
Then
they moved back up to Grayson county.
He didn't move up to Grayson county before
your mother died, I guess. Did he move
back up to Grayson county before your mother
died.
PAT
Yes.
And they lived out here Hyde Park and a
Doctor got them to sell out and go to a
higher altitude and he went up to
Huntsville, Arkansas. Back to the old
home place. And then he come back down
to between Huntsville and Federal and bought
a 40 acre little farm and all. And we
lived there and mother died there. And
then ...
RALPH
Pat,
is she buried there?
PAT
Yes.
She's buried at Hinesville. I went up
there a few years ago and seen her and
_______[Gilrith's?] graves, you
know. And whenever we had that place
there was an orchard right east of the house
there of three different kinds of
apples: Ben Davis, Winesap and
something else. And we'd put them down
in that basement and keep them. The
house was about maybe 200 yards off of the
road ... east of the road, you know.
And big cherry trees on each side of the
walkway up there. And the cherries,
they was big as quarters. And us kids
had a time keeping the birds out of there
... from eating them. Boy, they was
really fine and all. But the orchard
was all gone, the cherry trees was all
gone. The cellar was made out here
where you went into the cellar.
RALPH
Did
they raise any grapes up there at that time,
or do you remember?
PAT
I
don't know. I never seen a
grape. But Maude's brother lived just
about a half a mile from us right on south
down the road and they had three girls and a
boy. Me and Clyde, the boy, was just
about the same age and size and we used to
sit out in the corners of the railed fence
and made cornsilk horses. We was just
two little old kids, you know. And
since Clyde got grown he went to west Texas
and got into some oil company. I've
tried a number of times to ask fellows that
I've seen from out in there if they ever
knew him. One fellow said "I knew of
him, but I never did know him."
So, I guess Uncle Fate moved to up here in
Reneta, Oklahoma.
RALPH
Is
that the Boatwright end, where the
Boatwright came in?
PAT
No,
Uncle John Boatwright, he died down here at
... oh, what's the name of that place...
they came from Arkansas over there...
RALPH
There
was a Boatwright that had a big store, a
department store in Veneta. I was
thinking you and mom and Sade and Chloe
stopped there and talked to them
PAT
Well,
the Boatwright's was related to the family
in a way, but this here ... oh, I can't
think of the name of it now ... is down here
and then it went all over into Arkansas...
RALPH
Fort
Gibson?
PAT
Yeah.
And they was there. I never did know
what become of the Boatwrights. Never
did. They lost trace and moved to
Veneta, Oklahoma and the kids come down and
visited several times. There was three
girls and one boy, Clyde. And they're
all dead, I guess.
RALPH
I
never could remember whether the Boatwrights
were kin to the Bakers or whether they were
kin to the Borens.
PAT
They
were kin on my mother's side some way.
They wasn't kin to the Bakers but they were
related on my stepmother's side. And
Jess Boren, my nephew, he drove one by wagon
from Arkansas out here. Dad had two
wagons and there was nine wagons of us come
from Arkansas to Texas. Indian
Territory then was Indian territory.
It never had become a state. Camping
out at night and the Indians over there,
there was lots of them and the ugliest
humans you ever looked at, and all.
And whenever they seen a fire, they'd come
to the fire and they all had their horses
and saddles and blankets and the women folks
was scared to death of them, and all.
And they's motion that they wanted something
to eat. Well, the men folks would have
something fixed for them, give them
something to eat. Whenever they 'et
they was on their horses and gone.
Next morning they was back there for their
breakfast. But every night that we
stayed in the Indian territory there was
some of the menfolks stayed up all night.
They didn't go to bed and they just
rotated. I forgot how long we was
coming through Indian territory. There
were nine wagons of us. Jess Boren
drove one of dad's wagons out here and he
found a job from a man, Stevens out west of
town here on a nursery. Worked there
several years. Finally married a girl
out here at Hyde Park. Then went into
raising vegetables and things like
that. He was a nervous kind of a
fellow and all and he had two girls.
... and it rained, and rained, and rained
and ruined his gardens and washed his land
and he just got so aggravated he come down
here at this spring west of Dennison out
here, Katy railroad, up over an underpass,
sat down there by a train and shot himself,
killed himself. His wife, Effie died
about three years ago. I don't know
where the girls are living or not.
RALPH
He
just couldn't take it.
PAT
And
then the Borens began to come on up
here. They followed Jess up
here. Ed come up here. Bought a
place down south of Hyde Park out there and
then some of the other Borens come out and
they went back. Hugh married into the
Lamb family. Lamb was pretty wealthy
and all. And he got the someplace out
here on the road that goes to Laura
Lake. Right on the corner. Well,
there was a great big oak tree right at the
north door of the house. And he got
out there, was taking it down. And he
got some help and they sawed it down and was
trying to twist it around and Newt made a
run out this way and the tree twisted around
and fell and caught him and killed
him. I guess his wife still lives up
there at the old someplace. There's
lots of things... I've seen lots of things
that's happened here at town since I was
here and I remember it just as well as it
had been yesterday. Just take Main
Street there, you know, Joe Jenkins run a
blacksmith shop up there in about the fifth
block of Main Street. Dirt streets and
dirt road in there. He weighed between
two-fifty and three hundred pounds.
Big blacksmith. Shod horses, worked on
wagons and everything right there on Main
Street. Kate Kilgore's down here on
Crawford Street. Big two story house
there and all. Me and Fulkes Harvey
was about the same age. I lived at
1130 West Chestnut, he lived at 1100
Chestnut. And we run together after
school hours, when school was out. And
we used to go down there. He made
bricks. Had a brick [shill??] south of
his house there. Out of old red
clay. A lot of the clay is still
here. And that's been, I guess that's
been a hundred years. Because I was
just a kid and the buildings was here
then. And a lot of buildings that was
made of that old red clay just crumbled up,
you know.
[Francis]:
Tell
Ralph about that song... that song that you
was telling us about a while ago.
PAT
Well,
I told him a while ago.
RALPH
I
was gone out to to get the tape
recorder. I didn't get to hear it.
PAT
Well,
it was an engineer here. ______?
engineer. Bill Lewis and he lived
south of the viaduct in a big two-story
house. He belonged to the Trinity
Methodist Church. And when he was in,
off on his run he would get along the steps
of the State National Bank down there and
and sing and the police would have to keep
the traffic moving on the avenue and Main
Street to keep it from blocking.
People would come to hear him. He was
the greatest singer that I ever heard.
So, his favorite song was "Life's Railway to
Heaven." We lived out at Hyde Park and
the Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian would
have meetings out there in the summer months
and they would get him to come out lots of
times and sing. And he'd come sing for
either one of the denominations, and
all. And here about maybe four, five,
six months ago ... I've got up over twenty
years about three o'clock every
morning. I still wake up at that
time. And I don't got back to
sleep. Very seldom ever I go back to
sleep. And I just lay there and go
over my past life. I don't have no
future, and I just go there and go over my
past life.
RALPH
Look
like you've had a pretty good one.
There's a lot of future left, to me.
PAT
Yeah.
That song. I don't know why, but that
song came to me just as plain as you sitting
here. There was three verses and the
chorus of it, and it came to me just as
plain. And I still know it and
all. And I've been thinking to take
some of the oldest members of his church out
there and tape it off and get a quartet to
sing it in memory of him.
RALPH
Well,
why don't you just sing it for us right now?
[Pat
sings]:
Life's railway is like a road to heaven.
Make the wrong successful from the cradle to
the grave. Always keep in mindful that your
hands are on the throttle and your eye's
upon the rail. You will oft
times find obstruction. Look for storm or
wind and rain. On a curve or fill or tunnel
they will almost ditch a train. Put your
trust alone in Jesus. Never falter,
never fail. Keep your hand upon the
throttle, and your eyes upon the rail. As we
go across this trestle, spanning ______ and
swelling tide. You remember the
Union Depot into which the train will glide.
There you'll meet the superintendent.
God the Father, God the Son.
With the heartiest welcome every pilgrim
will come home. Blessed Savior there will
guide us til we reach that blissful
shore. Where the angels wait to join
us in the praise forevermore.
PAT
I
haven't heard that song in seventy years or
long, and all at once it come to me after I
woke up one night.
RALPH
That's
really something. I sure can't
remember songs anymore.
PAT
I've
been thinking about having it taped off and
getting a good quartet and letting them sing
it in his church. Emmet Cottrell, one
of the oldest members, he said he just
barely could remember Uncle Billy. I
don't know of anyone else that was old
enough to remember him.
RALPH
Pat,
I ran into a driver over there where I did
work. His name was Bill
Anderson. He said his mother knew you
and mom.
PAT
Will
Anderson?
RALPH
Well,
his name is Bill and he's a great big guy
and I think his grandad raised him, I
believe. Lived over around Pottsboro
someplace. I don't know what his
grandad's name was.
[Francis]:
Maybe
that's Bobby's mother. Bobby Baker.
RALPH
He
said his mother knew Pat...
[Francis]:
She
was an Anderson. That Mrs. Anderson
that goes to Dr. Gleckler.
PAT
That
was Jess Anderson. I can't remember
this here.
RALPH
I
know you knew Fred Purdue, didn't you?
Lived over around Pottsboro.
PAT
He's
still living. His folks all are out
there at Johnstown. I seen in the paper here
a while back where Willie is still
living. He got into trouble, his wife
did during the war. They done
something that wasn't right and the law went
out to arrest her and she took the
winchester and run them off. That's
right. She'd done something that
violated the law during the wartime.
RALPH
Some
of the rationing laws, probably.
PAT
Yeah.
They went out to get her and she run them
off. But Willie, I don't know whether
she's still living or not, but William
Purdue is.
RALPH
There
was a boy named Crook that married some of
Bootsie's kinfolk. I can't remember
what his first name was.
PAT
That
was Crook, and Bootsie's oldest boy, Darryl
Wayne married one of the girls.
RALPH
I
knew that there someplace, the boy that I
knew, it was his brother that married into
the family.
PAT
Darryl,
he went over here to this college at Durant
and had taken a course and gotten a
job. And he's retired now, and all.
And he married Dallas Crook's girl.
... Dallas was a good guy. He worked
for me out at the cemetery a whole lot and
all.
RALPH
You
talking about going into Oklahoma.
They tell me that you had a experience
coming to Missouri when I was just a baby
one time.
PAT
Who?
RALPH
You
and mom and I don't know who else was
along... in a model T going to Missouri and
you stopped and camped one night and
found out you was in a hog pen the next
morning. Do you remember that.
PAT
Yeah.
That's right. We went to rest at
night, in the dark, so we stopped there to
stay all night ... we pulled up to the side
of ... I believe there was a little
store. And we pulled up there and
stopped. I got to go on down there a
little later on, got away from there, and we
had camped where it was a hog pen. And
we stayed there 'til daylight and got up and
got something to eat and went on up
there. I don't know just where that
was at. I'd forgot all about that, but
I do remember it now.
[Francis]:
Was
that the place that you got the water that
night, and then the next morning you saw
what you'd got?
PAT
Yeah.
Got it out of the hog pen down there.
Pearl was telling you about it, wasn't she.
RALPH
Yes.
PAT
Well,
that's right.
RALPH
They
tell me that I wasn't saying anything up
until then, and I wanted a drink of water
and I haven't kept my mouth shut since.
PAT
That's
right.
RALPH
I
don't know, Pat. I've kept you talking
here a long time. I guess I'd better
let you rest a while.
PAT
No.
It's all right, Ralph.
RALPH
We
just live a hundred miles over there, but it
sure is hard to get over here.
PAT
Yeah.
RALPH
I
though that when I moved to Texas I'd get
acquainted with all my kinfolks, and spend a
lot of time with them. But I never
have had time.
PAT
I
seen lots of changes in Dennison since I was
a kid. After dad come back up here
from Navarro County he got a job over at
Oakwood Cemetery as Sexton. And worked
over there quite a while, I don't know how
long. My first school was here in
Dennison. Houston School. Then
we moved out to Hyde Park and me and Sade
and Chloe finished our schooling out
there. Eighth grade was as high as
they taught, and we finished out schooling
out there. There was four fellows out
there there was Jess Boren, like I
told you, and Mr. Ford and Mr. Groman and
Mr. Goldman all raised vegetables. And
they'd come to Dennison and Sherman and sell
them out in the morning. And I went to
work for Mr. Ford after school was out, and
all, for 40 cents a day. Ten hours,
from sun to sun. One hour off at
dinner. 40 cents a day. Men were
getting seventy-five... that's top
wages. And one day he said to me
"Patsy," (he called me Patsy) he said
"Patsy, I'm going to give you 75 cents a
day. You're doing me as good a work as
any man I got."
RALPH
You
went home happy, didn't you.
PAT
Oh
boy, I was really happy. But that was
high wages. Then I come down here and
went to work for the Katy in 1909 and I went
down there and he a little shack out there
in the yard and I went out there and I said
"I'm looking for a job." He said,
"We're not hiring anybody." Well, that
was in the morning. Noon I went
back. I said "I'm looking for a
job." "We're not hiring
anybody." I went back the next morning
he says "I told you we wasn't hiring
anybody." I went back the next
morning. I said, "Well, I'm still
looking for a job." and he said "I'm going
to give you a job to get shut of you." and
he give me a job.
[gap
in
tape]
RALPH
Our
youngest boy worked for a guy on a paper
route who went out on strike about the same
time you did, I guess. He went down to
Fort Worth and worked on the Star
Telegram. He said he was still out on
strike.
PAT
Well,
a lot of the boys... we all went out on
strike here, you know, and a lot of the boys
went down south here at Katy Terminal and
got a job under assumed names. Give a
different name and they hired them and they
belonged to the Union here. But they went on
down there to other Union terminals and they
hired them and all. Give them a
job. They was experienced, they
knew. But I never did go back to
work. I was offered a good job, but I
never did go back to work for the Katy.
RALPH
You
worked on a bread route about that time,
didn't you.
PAT
I
went to work ... I went over and I got a job
from Scott and Jennings, a furniture store
here. I worked for them... I don't
know how long... but anyway, I quit and I
went out home. Dad was getting kind of
poorly, and I went on home and went to
farming and taking care of him and
all. Old man Frank Jennings tried to
get Eric Borden to persuade me to come back
and go to work for them. They'd give
me a job going out collecting. They'd
go out, and they'd send us out, and we'd go
out and buy old second hand furniture, an
old stove, you know, with all the rods
burned out of it and everything. Give
them fifty cents for it, take it in and put
in new rods and polish it up and all and
they'd sell it anywhere from ten to fifteen
dollars. Old man Cody Hubbard ran a
store out here on Main Street and he went to
California and he give me a job working for
him while he was gone to California.
And so whenever he come back, Bill Center
who run a store here, went into the second
hand and new furniture business. So I
worked for him and all. Some woman at
Pottsboro wanted a coal oil stove. One
was advertised, so he sent me out and looked
at it. I went out and looked at it and
all. She wanted fifteen dollars for
it. It needed cleaning up and new
wicks in it. I gave her ten dollars
and we took it in and they cleaned it up and
put new wicks in it, called this woman and
she come got it. They got thirty-five
dollars for it. Old man Hubbard told
me, "Pat, I went into the wrong business
when I went into the grocery business.
If I'd went into the furniture business when
I went into the grocery business, I'd have
had money to throw away." And his boy
is running a furniture store down here in
town now. Hubbard Furniture.
RALPH
I
think dad was telling me about some of Blue
Brogdon's folks that went out around Bowie.
PAT
I
don't know where he come from.
RALPH
Well,
no I mean they went over there.. some of
them did. But they disappeared.
Nobody ever knew where they went.
But Blue come from some eastern state
here. I forgot where...
PAT
He
came from Tennessee, I think.
RALPH
It
was some eastern state and he bought that
place down there and give an acre for a
Brogdon burying ground. There's quite
a few buried down there besides the
Brogdons.
RALPH
My
oldest boy, he's real anxious to find out
where that is and see it and see about doing
something about it. He's just now got
interested in family history.
PAT
Well,
there was a woman come here from Lubbock and
California and they put up out here at that
townhouse motel. And they were hunting
an old graveyard by the name of Nobb
Hill. And somebody happened to be in
there and he heard them and they said "You
call Pat Baker. If there's a cemetery
in this country by the name of Nobb Hill,
he'll know it." Well, they called
me. Made an appointment with them the
next day. And we tried, I called
everybody... the oldest people that I could
think of... nobody never heard of Nobb
Hill. One neighbor had a funeral out
at Georgetown. Early Looney was
there. Early was an old
resident. And he said "Pat, I've got
an Uncle buried over there in the old
part. I can't find his grave. Do
you know where it is?" I said "Yeah, I
know just exactly where the Looney headrock
is." And I said after the funeral I'll
take you over there. So we went over
there and he said "That's him." and he
told me how long it has been since he
realized knowing it. I seen Early then
when I was hunting Nobb Hill cemetery, and I
said "Early, you ever heard of a cemetery
being named Nobb Hill?" He said
"Yeah." and down here on the west of it, you
go up a high hill. The road does in
the Hyde Park neighborhood. And he
said "I rode a horse back there many a time
up Nobb Hill." Well, Joe Hyronimous
married a Clark and on the west side of the
cemetery it's a family lot there of the
Clarks and Hyronimous is buried there.
Chain link fence around it and headrocks,
you know. And I asked Joe. "Joe,
do you know anything about a grave in there
by this name" I forget now. He said,
yeah. Its right on the extreme east
side of the graveyard. Well, we had
been down there and bramble briars was all
over it and everything. You'd have to
get down and crawl under them, you know, we
didn't go far enough down, and Joe told me
where it was at and we went down there and I
contacted these women and they wanted a
chain link fence put around it. And I
got a bunch and we went down there and
put... the headrock had fell off of the
base... and put it up and put a chain link
fence around, cleared it all off. And
this old man that was dead there was
in 1860. Lived in west Texas, had lots
of cattle, and they drove them overland to
Kansas City market and on the road several
days and all. And they got to Kansas
City with them, then the old man got sick
and the boy then bought a one-horse hack and
started back to Texas with his dad,
sick. And he got out here in the
south part of town, the old man was pretty
sick and someone out they took him and kept
him until he died. And then they
buried him up there on Nobb Hill
Cemetery. And I got the record of it
and it said it was also used as a military
cemetery and that was in 1860.
RALPH
Did
those people come from west Texas just to
see where their...
PAT
Yeah.
They drove their cattle from west Texas to
Kansas City Market over road. That's
the only way they had, then.
RALPH
Don'
you know that was good tender beef by the
time they got it there? 'bout as tough
as what we get now.
PAT
There's
a whole lot different now to what it used to
be, Ralph. But, I'll tell you, you
can't beat some of the old days that we used
to have back in my early time. People
was sociable. They cared for each
other. The few living out here and
farming, you got sick there'd be enough
cultivators and hoe hands to go in there and
clean your crop out in a day's time.
Now, they've moved all of the school houses
out of the country and put everything in
town. There isn't no more sociability
in the country anymore, not a bit. And
there's lots of it right here in town, where
we're living here. Someone right
there, we don't know who their neighbor is,
you know. We don't know. Someone
come along hunting her and asked about
her. She lived in this block. I
don't know. I never heard of her. And
she's your next door neighbor.
RALPH
That's
the way it is where we live. We know
very few people. People who go to church
with us, and people we work with and that's
it.
PAT
It
used to be when I was a young fellow up
there at Locus. And I'd a rather went
to Locus, of course me and Tom run a store
up there for several years, you know.
And I'd rather go to Locus now if the old
timers was out there that was then.
Hate to go to New York City, I sure
would. I'd say "take me to Locus" I
sure would. Take me to Locus out there
where I was raised about thirty-five years
and it was my job... I went ... I bet you
ninety percent of the kids that was born up
there in that neighborhood, I went at night
to get the doctors for them. And lots
of times I had to go out on the
prairie. The phone line would be
down...I'd have to go plumb on into
Pottsboro to get a doctor to come up.
And every time there was a kid born, you
know, it was "Get Pat, he'll go get the
doctor for us." And I did get them, I
never refused anybody. Never
did. All in the night and in the
daytime. We had a fellow, a blacksmith
by the name of Aaron Crabtree. Mr.
Golden, lived over there north of Locust
about three miles, he was bleeding to
death. He'd been bleeding all
day. And would tell them that he could
feel himself slipping, you know. Well,
the neighbors was all in. The doctor'd
been in, they couldn't help him and someone
happened to be there that knew Aaron
Crabtree. And he could stop
blood. And they'd say "Why don't you
get Aaron Crabtree over here? Aaron
will stop that blood." and someone got on a
horse and ... it was about three miles ...
[intelligible] and get old man Crabtree that
ran a blacksmith shop there. And he
come over there and he went in and he looked
at Mr. Golden a few minutes, went out to
himself. I don't know, someone told me
there was a certain verse in the bible,
that's he'd quote that... he never would
tell what it was. Didn't even tell his
family before he died what that was.
And it wasn't very long 'til Mr. Golden's
blood commenced to slowing down. In
about 30 minutes, his nose had quit
bleeding. And when would get a horse,
or cow, or colt caught up in barbed wire,
they couldn't stop the blood, they'd go get
old man Crabtree and he'd come and stop the
blood on animals just like he did the
men. And I asked his oldest boy after
he died, I said "Hogan, did your dad ever
tell you what that was, the way he stopped
blood." He said, "No, never
did." But he could stop blood, he sure
could.
RALPH
There's
a lot of things happen that there's not any
explanation for.
PAT
I've
had nosebleeds. Have been for the last
two months. One morning here, it bled
for an hour and a half until I finally got
it stopped, and next day it bled for about
an hour and I got it stopped. Then
it's bled several times, a little at a
time. But nose used to bleed a whole
lot. I never did get excited.
The folks did, and picking cotton in the
fall I just hung my head over and picked
cotton and let my nose bleed. I'd
stick a piece of cotton up my nose, pull it
out, it'd just squirt the blood out.
I'd hold my head over here and pick
cotton. I never did, but the folks
would get uneasy about it. But I never
did. That's the first time it's bled
though in a long time.
RALPH
I
guess that runs in the family, Pat. My
nose used to bleed real easy, when I was a
kid. Just look at it and and it'd
start bleeding.
PAT
Yeah,
but then got over it. Some people
never have a nosebleed, but others have lots
of it.
RALPH
Well,
Pat, we're going to have to go home.
PAT
Well,
why don't you stay all night?
RALPH
Well,
we've been gone too long from home
now. They may have it all carried off.
PAT
Well
now, Ralph, I'll tell you this.
Whenever the weather clears up, when it gets
to be pretty weather, y'all come up here and
I'll go to the Brogdon graveyard with you
and I'll go down and show you where Pearl
was born. The house ... I called Ed
McKee ... he bought the farm right west of
where Pearl was born and I called Ed not too
long back and asked him about this house and
he said "I think the house is gone, but I
know where it was." And dad used to
work for old man John Reddick, he owned this
here house across the road and farm and dad
worked for him. And he had a mule and
a horse. And Mrs. Reddick had a conch
horn. And the land run up I know of
quite a little ways from the house.
Well, whenever, at eleven o'clock every day
she'd get out and blow that conch horn, you
know to let them know it's dinner
time. And he had a mule and that mule
... he'd been a working, singing to himself
... and if that mule was half way to the
other end, nobody couldn't hold him.
He turned around right in the middle of the
field and come to the house for
dinner. Dad said that him and old man
John Reddick both couldn't hold him.
Whenever he'd hear that conch horn, he'd
just ... wherever he was at, he just turned
around and come home.
RALPH That mule was better trained
than anybody else.
PAT
That's
right. He knew it was eating time.
[END OF TAPE]
